<div dir="auto"><div>Just to be clear, UL, NFPA, ICC, ESTA, etc. employees do not write the standards. Volunteers from without the organization write them. There is ample opportunity for public input. ANSI standards, such as those written by NFPA and ESTA, follow a detailed series of rules and procedures to assure the public interest is represented. Then, when finally published, they only become enforceable law after voted so by legislators.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Unlike those above, OSHA and other federal standards are written by civil servants and do not have the same safeguards of checks and balances and become law automatically.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 11:41 AM Ford Sellers via Stagecraft <<a href="mailto:stagecraft@theatrical.net">stagecraft@theatrical.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Scott,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think David and Bill C. state it pretty clearly(ish…) or as clearly as you can for something so Muddy.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Basically, the people that make the rules aren’t the people that enforce them.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Your local AHJ is the potential enforcer. This may be a fire marshal, or even OSHA.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">They would be the ones that do an actual inspection at the Jobsite of an installation. They will reference a veritable bevvy of different rules/standards/codes from various rule makers. Including NEC, NPFA, OSHA adopted standards, various
building codes, etc.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For <b><u>Products,</u></b> having the unit (or fixture) tested to the appropriate national standard by an NTRL (Nationally Recognized Testing Lab) should be enough to pass muster with your AHJ (in most situations), although the installation
of said product may still need to meet other standards (like NEC). <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In terms of Standards… UL sits in a somewhat unique situation in the USA, wherein they publish the standards, and are a testing lab that can certify that a product meets those standards. In the 1970s (I think) they were sued by METlabs
for having a monopoly on this, and lost. So, other testing labs who became certified as NRTLs (like METlabs, and Intertek) were allowed the “Right to Mark” a product as passing the UL standard.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As an Example:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the USA, an LED lighting fixture would require certifications to UL standards for Electrical safety, FCC for radio emissions (now required for all LED light sources, regardless of whether they have radio-remote control).
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">You may also see CSA (Canadian), CE (European), CB (Japanese), RoHS (to do with recycling and use of non-toxic materials in manufacture), RED (like European FCC), and TUV (European structural standards) certifications… But those are not
acceptable in lieu of proper UL and FCC certification in the US, although seeing them may give you some assurances that the product is built to high standards.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My understanding is that TUV is in a similar situation in Europe to UL in the US, in that they write many of the structural standards, and also are the main certifying body for products tested to those standards. This is why you may see
TUV ratings on things like Truss, and Clamps… But because TUV is also just a testing lab, you may see a TUV mark on a piece of electronics, as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Basically, in the US look for a UL, MET, or ETL logo on an electronic/electrical product. That will give you some level of confidence that it is at least electrically safe to use… but, depending on the standard it was tested to,
<u>it may not be approved for use in your application</u>… that will be up to your AHJ to decide.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is a lot of Alphabet Soup. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Even trying to explain this makes my head hurt… I’m going to practice my skills with developing a beverage using the Standard that David’s father helped author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Ford<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Stagecraft <<a href="mailto:stagecraft-bounces@theatrical.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">stagecraft-bounces@theatrical.net</a>> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>David Fox via Stagecraft<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 17, 2021 1:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:stagecraft@theatrical.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">stagecraft@theatrical.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Fox <<a href="mailto:David.Fox@etcconnect.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">David.Fox@etcconnect.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [SML] Regulatory<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[uncloaking]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">This is always an odd question as regulatory takes on so many different meanings. From looking at your description I believe you are essentially looking for governing
bodies that create rules and regulations that impact our work and the spaces we work in. Here are some to add to your list below<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">UL-<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Underwriters Laboratories uses a series of codes and designations that determine if a product or item meets the rules within National Electrical code. These can
include voltages, emergency requirements, maximum voltages, emitted frequencies, etc. Inspectors may not know the NEC code a product needs to meet, but they do know the UL code (Example NEC 700.24 and UL 924).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">ASHRAE-<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers is a body that works with multiple groups and develops the regulations and standards
that go into national building code, DOE energy requirements, Heating and cooling regulations. Examples you will see in venues include building safety requirements. Heating and cooling cycles and temperature control location rules, occupancy and daylight sensors
and controls, switched outlets and building lighting control schedules. If you have ever wondered Why the hell did it get built like that? Or Who decided that the light switches needed to be placed…. It was probably due to an ASHRAE rule.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">ESTA - ESTA has working groups that develop and maintain industry standards or work with other larger groups to make sure that our industries needs are considered
when changes are made to national standards and codes. Recent examples have included changes and exceptions to portable/temporary power installations and allowances for corded emergency lighting. Many of their independent standards are submitted to…..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">ANSI- American National Standards Institute. This is a group that collects and maintains a library of documents that while not law, are considered the standard
for how something should be done or works. In our industry ESTA and USITT have contributed many. Probably the best known of these is ANSI E1.11 Entertainment Technology—USITT DMX512-Asynchronous Serial Digital Data Transmission Standard for Controlling Lighting
Equipment and Accessories. <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tsp.esta.org/tsp/documents/docs/ANSI-ESTA_E1-11_2008R2018.pdf__;!!J_x18tFw!dUqetPYYpdz4F-ukmRGw13HsBoe8tDErZFea2w3wVLoHbV4HnVqA3BWzSAN9Vql_xMjl4g$" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
https://tsp.esta.org/tsp/documents/docs/ANSI-ESTA_E1-11_2008R2018.pdf</a>. Again, not a low or a rule, but when something doesn’t comply to the standard it makes it really easy to know why it isn’t working ( i.e. 60 devices on a single DMX line).
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Fun fact- in 1966, my father was working for the IRS and he and a group of his buddies wrote this….</span>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.scribd.com/doc/30749978/American-Standard-Safety-Code-and-Requirements-for-Dry-Martinis__;!!J_x18tFw!dUqetPYYpdz4F-ukmRGw13HsBoe8tDErZFea2w3wVLoHbV4HnVqA3BWzSAN9VqnakQBLZw$" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.scribd.com/doc/30749978/American-Standard-Safety-Code-and-Requirements-for-Dry-Martinis</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hope this helps<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">__________________________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">It is important to note that the opinions of the individual and those of their employer are not always aligned.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">What you have read should be construed as my opinion and not the opinion of my employer.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">If you don't like or agree with my thoughts and musings, I am the one you should take to task and not the nice people who pay me.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Be Seeing You<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">David<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Bold",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">__________________________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[cloaking]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">>Hi All,<br>
>I'm working on a spreadsheet resource and I have a column that could use >input. What agencies that actually regulate rules for our industry?<br>
<br>
>OSHA<br>
>ATF<br>
>Local Fire Marshals and by extension NFPA & NEC?<br>
>FCC<br>
<br>
>Would ANSI be a regulatory agency? They create standards but I don't think they regulate them. Same would go for NFPA/NEC I suppose.<br>
>So many of our industry associations also create standards & guidelines but are not regulatory in nature.<br>
<br>
>Who else would be a regulatory agency for our industry?<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</blockquote></div></div></div>