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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">This presumes the only reason to go to college is to get career training and that’s simply not the case. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Being able to research and report on that research, being educated well enough to be able to debate someone on a topic without it becoming a personal vendetta, and being able to possess enough knowledge to go on to those career preparations which require advanced study (e.g. social worker, law, medicine, and college teaching, to name a few. We can add MBA, and even MFA to that list) are all valid reasons to go to college. I’d argue being able to know what’s real and what’s BS on social media is a great reason to go, too. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">So is “I have no idea what I want to do with my life and need a little more time to figure that out.” </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">My undergrad is in vocal performance. I went back to get teacher certification K-12 choral/general music, which then led to a masters in theater focusing on technical pedagogy, but I’d argue my IATSE local did a better job of career training than anything I paid for. Problem is, damn few IA locals have anything nearing a “real” apprenticeship program and even those don’t have universal standards for what’s needed. (Never fear... looks like that’s coming sooner than I expected.) </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">And when I look back, darn few of the folks who were music ed majors in college stuck with that career to retirement. Many moved into business, went to law school, or went to another school for more training. One is an OBGYN nurse, another in cardiac ICU and another in a cancer hospice. One is development officer for a private school. A couple are a librarians (also needs a Master’s degree!). One runs an advertising agency. Several are lawyers or computer programmers/scientists. One manages the local music store. A couple got MDs. One runs a foundation for animal rescue. Many of us are caring for elderly parents or kids. And music can be a part of all of these professions, as well as an avocation. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">So... let’s look at some of the careers folks on this page have...</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">What college or school can I go to learn arena rigging? Or any entertainment rigging for that matter?</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">How about making bespoke wigs for theater? </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Managing a hemp house? </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Stage managing for corporate events? </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Calling spotlight cues? (June Abernathy and I are available to teach this to your kids.)</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Or mixing with a Digco board well enough to tour a Broadway Show? Ooh! Or desigining a sound system for one! </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">How about designing an integrated sound/video/lighting system for a mega church?</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Or running a small business serving a niche industry where your relationships are more important than your marketing materials?</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I dare say every person on this group has had some post-HS education and almost all of us have had a combination of formal and informal instruction, the latter often provided on the job by someone who’s a master of that specific skillset. And formal instruction is often from manufacturers teaching us how to run their gear. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">The catch is... most of y’all are men, and if your race is the majority in your country, the simple fact is, it’s been far easier for you to get those doors open than it has been for women and people who are not of the major race. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">So college here is part of the great “American Dream” - where anyone is supposed to be able to “pull themselves up by their boot straps” get and education and get out of (or avoid) poverty. And education is not just technical skills to do a job. Communications, psychology, advanced mastery of the three Rs, how to lead a team - those are just as vital and a good school will ensure their students have a working knowledge of all of those. So we need to keep 2/4 year colleges and universities and technical colleges and trade schools and the rest as they all help in that “pursuit of happiness” we’re supposed to be able to have. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">As for payment - yeah. That’s a different matter...</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">My undergrad’s current tuition etc (comprehensive fee) is around $265,000 for four years, 1% of 1400 students pay the full thing. Everyone’s getting scholarships, grants, or taking out loans. Yet, when I graduated (in four years, as almost all their current students do... the average nationwide is six!) I only owed $6K in loans on $44K of comprehensive fee. I couldn’t get financial aid to get my teaching license beacuse I already had a Bachelors so that was all loans. And no one told me that I could work at a college to get tuition remission for a Masters until I was already 24 credits in, so that was mostly pay-as-I-go until I went back to complete it and took out loans. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">It’s possible to get other support for your undergrad. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">My nephew worked at McDonalds and got tuition subsidies there. He was able to transfer to a different store when he transferred schools and maintained his shift leader position.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Another went into the military. Eight years later he came out intending to go to college, but instead did a plumbing apprenticeship. He’s now making six figures as a plumber, but wants to go to college to become a mechanical engineer and design plumbing systems. Thanks to his military service and employer benefits, it’ll be close to free. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">We even have a cheese company here that’s offering $56K to their employees to help them get a degree while they are working. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">The fact remains that the kid who was undecided then found out they love chemistry and so became a pharmacist, or the one who was inspired to learn more about music and became a music therapist, or even the one who majored in art history and is now running a gallery, teaching students to mimic the great masters or working at auction houses - all of them have a place in an educated society. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">All jobs are skilled jobs. Ya want your burgers cooked properly, your airport bathrooms clean, and your grocery store shelves stocked - all jobs have value and all courses of study may be just the thing that person needs to be a better person and thus be a better neighbor, co-worker and fellow citizen for all of us regardless of how they earn a living. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">There are people in college today who are learning things that will prepare them for careers that don’t even exist now. The learning how to learn at the highest level - that’s the reason to go to college. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Having the government decide what I can and can’t learn is the absolute anthesis of what the USA and any other democratic society stands for. Racial-majority men may have never had someone forbid you to do something because of your race or gender, but those of us who have can tell you how crappy and unfair that is. Access to education is key to freedom, and the return on investment is one on of the best from any opportunity. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I far prefer my taxes pay for arts history than another bomb or nuclear widget. ROI. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Kristi R-C</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Sunday, September 24, 2023, 09:29:09 PM CDT, Joe via Stagecraft <stagecraft@theatrical.net> wrote:
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<div id="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655yqtfd65676" class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655yqt6034127004"><p class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655ydpec5a301MsoNormal"><font size="3">On Sunday, September 24, 2023 Bill Sapsis via Stagecraft
<stagecraft@theatrical.net> wrote:</font></p>
<p class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655ydpec5a301MsoNormal"><font size="3">>Would now be a good time to start talking about Vo-Tech
programs for technical theatre?</font></p></div>
<p class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655ydpec5a301MsoNormal"><font size="3">I think there have been a number of forces putting pressure
on making an education something that is worth the investment.</font></p>
<div class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655ydpec5a301MsoNormal"><font size="3">Regarding shutting down arts programs, The "Car
Talk" radio show on PBS often made fun of the "Art History
Majors".<span> </span>They considered it the epitome
of a degree for which you can't find a job in the field. Likewise in theater,
the joke is "You are an actress? What restaurant do you work
at?".<span> </span>So the arts majors have long
been taking criticism regarding it being a viable career. </font></div><div class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655ydpec5a301MsoNormal"><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></div><div class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655ydpec5a301MsoNormal"><font size="3">And there is some
truth to the jokes.<span> </span></font><font size="3">There are many more people who want to be in the art fields,
than there are job openings for them. Sports is another example, since only 1.4% of college football players end up as pros. But in
theater, the students involved with the theater department are theater majors. Whereas,
in sports, it is expected that you are earning a degree in another field.<span> </span>Business management is a very popular subject
for athletes, though some take easy, junk, degrees.</font></div>
<p class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655ydpec5a301MsoNormal"><font size="3">For years now, the rising costs of college education, beyond
the cost of inflation, has also been putting pressure on making the degree earn
its investment.</font></p>
<p class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655ydpec5a301MsoNormal"><font size="3">The efforts by Biden to use federal money to pay college
debts has brought the tuition topic to the forefront. The issue of buying
votes, and capitalism vs. socialism is a major part of that. <span> </span>So, there is certainly a political component.</font></p>
<div><font size="3"><span style="line-height:107%;">But, I think the main issue is if an arts major expects
to earn enough money when they graduate, to make it worth the money that is
invested.<span> </span>If they expect to have to
ultimately pay for it themselves, they are more likely to choose something
other than an arts major. </span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span style="line-height:107%;"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span style="line-height:107%;">Reducing the cost of a theater major, through the Vo-Tech system, is one solution. Another approach for keeping the status quo, is if art departments get the
government to subsidize them. But that requires that they do things the government
wants them to do. And in general, I don't like that idea. Let the democrats fund their own arts institutions without my own tax money. I actually don't like the idea, even if the government were to get more inline with my own views.<br clear="none"></span></font></div></div><div><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="3">-Joe<div id="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655yqtfd87631" class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655yqt6034127004"><br clear="none"></div></font></div><div id="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655yqtfd48515" class="ydpdae3c381yiv2823743655yqt6034127004"><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(38, 40, 42);">
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