[SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?

[Riter, Andrew]

Well that changes my picture of how this is supposed to work . . . .

I understand the system you’re proposing.

(not as good system)
The pipe or stick twist still puts the out of balance load on the floating block below.  That over weight load is what deforms and breaks the block from the T-track.

(good system)
The snub line holds the twist (no stick/pipe), but the load is carried back to the locking rail.  Got it.

Once I take the rail lock off, I can let the operating line slide out (through) the snub knot by pulling down (gently) on the knot, allowing the twists to rub through each other as the pipe goes out (gaining weight) and the heavy arbour slowly comes in.  That’s how I pictured it using a prussic on a looped rope.  Am I still off base?

As for the snub knot itself:  I take it a prussic won’t do.  I found Dave Vick’s images on StageSeminars.com for snubbing.  I’ll need to look that up elsewhere for some better intermediary images (sorry Dave).  My take is it starts like a Clove, but then works its way DOWN the operating lines, under the tensioned line to the locking rail.

Thanks very much.


Andrew M. Riter
Assistant Technical Director, Head Lighting Technician
Chan Centre

Phone 604 822 2372
andrew.riter at ubc.ca<mailto:andrew.riter at ubc.ca>

From: Stagecraft <stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net> On Behalf Of Bill Sapsis via Stagecraft
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:42 PM
To: Stagecraft Mailing List <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
Cc: Bill Sapsis <bill at sapsis-rigging.com>
Subject: Re: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

And we’re off……

I don’t use loops.  You’re referring to a variation on a prusik.  All well and good.  But I prefer a single piece of rope about 8’ (2.4m).  I put a few twists in the operating line and tie the snub knot around the twisted line.  The other end gets a clove hitch around the locking rail.  Don’t forget to cinch down the clove with a half hitch.

Remember….The friction created by twisting the 2 sides of the operating line together is what holds the out of balance condition.  That’s what’s holding the load.  The snub is there to keep the operating line from untwisting.

Tanks.

Bill

bill at sapsis-rigging.com<mailto:bill at sapsis-rigging.com>
http://sapsis-rigging.com
+1.267.278.4561 mobile



From: Stagecraft <stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net>> on behalf of "stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>" <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>
Reply-To: "stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>" <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 7:31 PM
To: "stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>" <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>
Cc: "Riter, Andrew" <andrew.riter at ubc.ca<mailto:andrew.riter at ubc.ca>>
Subject: Re: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?

Thanks Bill

Before I start cutting different lengths of rope off the spool to see how much I need to make the loop, any thoughts of how much rope should I start with?

10’ loops to < 5’ which seems short in my mind.
20’ loops to < 10’ which after the joining knot at the tails, pluss the prussic, still seems long.

13 – 15’??

Oh, I had a look today, and the operating line is a black twisted rope (not a smooth “modern” climbing style of rope).  Does that make a difference when using a snub knot?

I know there is the manufacturer’s binder in the venue which will have a bunch of info I need to read.  I just haven’t got there yet, and am looking further out to make plans to make our professional upgrades to the space.

Yes, zat helps.

thanks

Andrew M. Riter
Assistant Technical Director, Head Lighting Technician
Chan Centre

Phone 604 822 2372
andrew.riter at ubc.ca<mailto:andrew.riter at ubc.ca>

From: Stagecraft <stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net>> On Behalf Of Bill Sapsis via Stagecraft
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:08 PM
To: Stagecraft Mailing List <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>
Cc: Bill Sapsis <bill at sapsis-rigging.com<mailto:bill at sapsis-rigging.com>>
Subject: Re: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

Andrew wrote, in part… “PS:  what’s preferred for out of balance lineset while loading for tall set pieces or soft goods:  snub line, twists, or Uncle Benny?  I think I know the Hive’s answer, but just to confirm….
Options 2 and 3 put too much wrong tension on the floating kick block, yes??”

While the concerns over a failure in the floor block guide tracks or guide shoes, and even more compelling reason to use a snub knot is focus.  Having a lineset out of balance is a dangerous condition and the flyperson needs to have a clear focus on what’s going on with the lineset.  By its very nature, the Uncle Benny (aka line lok, uncle buddy and a host of other names) is difficult to install and even more to remove.  The technicians focus tends to be on trying to keep the uncle benny from swinging up and hitting them in the face.  Meanwhile, the lineset is a few hundred pounds out of balance and its operating line wants to move.  Fast.  If you’re messing with the uncle benny you may lose the grip on the operating line and then all hell breaks loose.

Snubknots are easy.  They can be installed and removed blindfolded (I’m not suggesting you do this, however) and allows the technician to maintain focus where it belongs.  On the operating rope.

And yeah, there’s the floor block pulling out of the guide tracks and hitting you in the shin.  Or worse.

Zat help?

Bill

bill at sapsis-rigging.com<mailto:bill at sapsis-rigging.com>
http://sapsis-rigging.com
+1.267.278.4561 mobile



From: Stagecraft <stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net>> on behalf of "stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>" <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>
Reply-To: "misswisc at aol.com<mailto:misswisc at aol.com>" <misswisc at aol.com<mailto:misswisc at aol.com>>, "stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>" <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 5:59 PM
To: "stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>" <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>
Cc: "misswisc at aol.com<mailto:misswisc at aol.com>" <misswisc at aol.com<mailto:misswisc at aol.com>>
Subject: Re: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?

Unkle Bill’s 21st Century Rigging book has a lot of that. And snub knot preferred.

Kristi R-C
-----Original Message-----
From: Riter, Andrew via Stagecraft <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>
To: 'Stagecraft Mailing List' <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>
Cc: Riter, Andrew <andrew.riter at ubc.ca<mailto:andrew.riter at ubc.ca>>
Sent: Tue, Sep 21, 2021 3:46 pm
Subject: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?
Hi everyone

Recently my worksite has been given managerial control over a 100 year old (renovated 10 years ago) small proscenium house.  It’s got 38 fly lines on 8” centres.  Single purchase.

Part of my to do list is to create the paperwork around the safe operation and training of staff and university students.

Rather than start from scratch (I last ran flies 20 years ago before this job), I’m hoping to get some documents I can crib from.  The University has its own template files, I’m looking for sources of the language, risk matrix, things to include etc.

If you have any documents for a fly system titled the following, would you be willing to share?

Safe Work Procedures
Standard Operating Procedures
Policy and Procedures
Operator Rules
Training documents

Thanks very much.

PS:  what’s preferred for out of balance lineset while loading for tall set pieces or soft goods:  snub line, twists, or Uncle Benny?  I think I know the Hive’s answer, but just to confirm….
Options 2 and 3 put too much wrong tension on the floating kick block, yes??

Andrew M. Riter
Assistant Technical Director, Head Lighting Technician
Chan Centre for the Performing Arts
The University of British Columbia | Vancouver Campus
6265 Crescent Road | Vancouver BC | V6T 1Z1 Canada
Phone 604 822 2372
andrew.riter at ubc.ca<mailto:andrew.riter at ubc.ca>
[UBC E-mail Signature]

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