[SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?

Wed Sep 22 22:58:04 UTC 2021

You need to be sure the lock rail is designed for the load you might be
putting on it.

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 6:45 PM Riter, Andrew via Stagecraft <
stagecraft at theatrical.net> wrote:

> Well that changes my picture of how this is supposed to work . . . .
>
>
>
> I understand the system you’re proposing.
>
>
>
> (not as good system)
>
> The pipe or stick twist still puts the out of balance load on the floating
> block below.  That over weight load is what deforms and breaks the block
> from the T-track.
>
>
>
> (good system)
>
> The snub line holds the twist (no stick/pipe), but the load is carried
> back to the locking rail.  Got it.
>
>
>
> Once I take the rail lock off, I can let the operating line slide out
> (through) the snub knot by pulling down (gently) on the knot, allowing the
> twists to rub through each other as the pipe goes out (gaining weight) and
> the heavy arbour slowly comes in.  That’s how I pictured it using a prussic
> on a looped rope.  Am I still off base?
>
>
>
> As for the snub knot itself:  I take it a prussic won’t do.  I found Dave
> Vick’s images on StageSeminars.com for snubbing.  I’ll need to look that up
> elsewhere for some better intermediary images (sorry Dave).  My take is it
> starts like a Clove, but then works its way DOWN the operating lines, under
> the tensioned line to the locking rail.
>
>
>
> Thanks very much.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Andrew M. Riter*
> Assistant Technical Director, Head Lighting Technician
> Chan Centre
>
>
> Phone 604 822 2372
> andrew.riter at ubc.ca
>
>
>
> *From:* Stagecraft <stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net> * On Behalf Of *Bill
> Sapsis via Stagecraft
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:42 PM
> *To:* Stagecraft Mailing List <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> *Cc:* Bill Sapsis <bill at sapsis-rigging.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?
>
>
>
> [*CAUTION:* Non-UBC Email]
>
> And we’re off……
>
>
>
> I don’t use loops.  You’re referring to a variation on a prusik.  All well
> and good.  But I prefer a single piece of rope about 8’ (2.4m).  I put a
> few twists in the operating line and tie the snub knot around the twisted
> line.  The other end gets a clove hitch around the locking rail.  Don’t
> forget to cinch down the clove with a half hitch.
>
>
>
> Remember….The friction created by twisting the 2 sides of the operating
> line together is what holds the out of balance condition.  That’s what’s
> holding the load.  The snub is there to keep the operating line from
> untwisting.
>
>
>
> Tanks.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> bill at sapsis-rigging.com
>
> http://sapsis-rigging.com
>
> +1.267.278.4561 mobile
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Stagecraft <stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net> on behalf of "
> stagecraft at theatrical.net" <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> *Reply-To: *"stagecraft at theatrical.net" <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> *Date: *Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 7:31 PM
> *To: *"stagecraft at theatrical.net" <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> *Cc: *"Riter, Andrew" <andrew.riter at ubc.ca>
> *Subject: *Re: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?
>
>
>
> Thanks Bill
>
>
>
> Before I start cutting different lengths of rope off the spool to see how
> much I need to make the loop, any thoughts of how much rope should I start
> with?
>
>
>
> 10’ loops to < 5’ which seems short in my mind.
>
> 20’ loops to < 10’ which after the joining knot at the tails, pluss the
> prussic, still seems long.
>
>
>
> 13 – 15’??
>
>
>
> Oh, I had a look today, and the operating line is a black twisted rope
> (not a smooth “modern” climbing style of rope).  Does that make a
> difference when using a snub knot?
>
>
>
> I know there is the manufacturer’s binder in the venue which will have a
> bunch of info I need to read.  I just haven’t got there yet, and am looking
> further out to make plans to make our professional upgrades to the space.
>
>
>
> Yes, zat helps.
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> *Andrew M. Riter*
> Assistant Technical Director, Head Lighting Technician
> Chan Centre
>
>
> Phone 604 822 2372
> andrew.riter at ubc.ca
>
>
>
> *From:* Stagecraft <stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net> *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Sapsis via Stagecraft
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:08 PM
> *To:* Stagecraft Mailing List <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> *Cc:* Bill Sapsis <bill at sapsis-rigging.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?
>
>
>
> [*CAUTION:* Non-UBC Email]
>
> Andrew wrote, in part… “PS:  what’s preferred for out of balance lineset
> while loading for tall set pieces or soft goods:  snub line, twists, or
> Uncle Benny?  I think I know the Hive’s answer, but just to confirm….
>
> Options 2 and 3 put too much wrong tension on the floating kick block,
> yes??”
>
>
>
> While the concerns over a failure in the floor block guide tracks or guide
> shoes, and even more compelling reason to use a snub knot is focus.  Having
> a lineset out of balance is a dangerous condition and the flyperson needs
> to have a clear focus on what’s going on with the lineset.  By its very
> nature, the Uncle Benny (aka line lok, uncle buddy and a host of other
> names) is difficult to install and even more to remove.  The technicians
> focus tends to be on trying to keep the uncle benny from swinging up and
> hitting them in the face.  Meanwhile, the lineset is a few hundred pounds
> out of balance and its operating line wants to move.  Fast.  If you’re
> messing with the uncle benny you may lose the grip on the operating line
> and then all hell breaks loose.
>
>
>
> Snubknots are easy.  They can be installed and removed blindfolded (I’m
> not suggesting you do this, however) and allows the technician to maintain
> focus where it belongs.  On the operating rope.
>
>
>
> And yeah, there’s the floor block pulling out of the guide tracks and
> hitting you in the shin.  Or worse.
>
>
>
> Zat help?
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> bill at sapsis-rigging.com
>
> http://sapsis-rigging.com
>
> +1.267.278.4561 mobile
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Stagecraft <stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net> on behalf of "
> stagecraft at theatrical.net" <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> *Reply-To: *"misswisc at aol.com" <misswisc at aol.com>, "
> stagecraft at theatrical.net" <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> *Date: *Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 5:59 PM
> *To: *"stagecraft at theatrical.net" <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> *Cc: *"misswisc at aol.com" <misswisc at aol.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?
>
>
>
> Unkle Bill’s 21st Century Rigging book has a lot of that. And snub knot
> preferred.
>
>
>
> Kristi R-C
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Riter, Andrew via Stagecraft <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> To: 'Stagecraft Mailing List' <stagecraft at theatrical.net>
> Cc: Riter, Andrew <andrew.riter at ubc.ca>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 21, 2021 3:46 pm
> Subject: [SML] Fly system SWP, SOPs, P&P?
>
> Hi everyone
>
>
>
> Recently my worksite has been given managerial control over a 100 year old
> (renovated 10 years ago) small proscenium house.  It’s got 38 fly lines on
> 8” centres.  Single purchase.
>
>
>
> Part of my to do list is to create the paperwork around the safe operation
> and training of staff and university students.
>
>
>
> Rather than start from scratch (I last ran flies 20 years ago before this
> job), I’m hoping to get some documents I can crib from.  The University has
> its own template files, I’m looking for sources of the language, risk
> matrix, things to include etc.
>
>
>
> If you have any documents for a fly system titled the following, would you
> be willing to share?
>
>
>
> Safe Work Procedures
>
> Standard Operating Procedures
>
> Policy and Procedures
>
> Operator Rules
>
> Training documents
>
>
>
> Thanks very much.
>
>
>
> PS:  what’s preferred for out of balance lineset while loading for tall
> set pieces or soft goods:  snub line, twists, or Uncle Benny?  I think I
> know the Hive’s answer, but just to confirm….
>
> Options 2 and 3 put too much wrong tension on the floating kick block,
> yes??
>
>
>
> *Andrew M. Riter*
> Assistant Technical Director, Head Lighting Technician
> Chan Centre for the Performing Arts
> The University of British Columbia | Vancouver Campus
> 6265 Crescent Road | Vancouver BC | V6T 1Z1 Canada
> Phone 604 822 2372
> andrew.riter at ubc.ca
>
> [image: UBC E-mail Signature]
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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