[SML] Smoke vs Heat vs Rate of Rise detectors

Tue Mar 8 22:53:42 UTC 2022

The duct sensors - required in US to be smoke detectors in the return air
ducts - should be zoned separately so you can switch them off for smoke
effects. Often requires a fire watch (fireperson on site).

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022, 4:12 PM Riter, Andrew via Stagecraft <
stagecraft at theatrical.net> wrote:

> Thanks to Bill Jim Dale George and Bruce
>
> Project is on the books, but the process hasn't started yet (no one
> assigned to manage it).
>
> I expect that experts will be hired, but I need to know what to demand
> before we meet with them, so we can argue in our favour.
>
> We've always had issues with the Fire Announce Mic system, and during some
> testing, it appears its amp failed.  Research by facilities determined that
> the system (made by 1 of the top 3 lines) isn't repairable anymore.  And
> since the systems have changed slightly in the past 25 years, it's not just
> a matter of replacing the Main Panel, but every sensor, pull station,
> Refuge Phone etc.
>
> Sprinklers are fine.  (the heads have been replaced twice in my 20 years:
> once as an upgrade, and then a year later either as a warranty or similar
> issue).
>
> We're in the Pacific North West (OK Canada, so South West).  Winters
> aren't that bad.
> The FOH Cove (enclosed room in the ceiling for the lighting; not open
> catwalk) does get up to 40deg C during graduation season (they stay on for
> 12 hours straight), but that's a slow increase, so shouldn't be a big deal.
>
> Different venue on campus just replaced the deluge curtain with a fire
> curtain after the inevitable occurred.  The Mist Heads seem interesting,
> but we won't be doing that.
>
> Thanks for the comments.
>
> Andrew M. Riter
> Chan Centre
>
> 604-808-2033 (working from home)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stagecraft <stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net> On Behalf Of Dale
> Farmer via Stagecraft
> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2022 6:09 PM
> To: stagecraft at theatrical.net
> Cc: Dale Farmer <dale at cybercom.net>
> Subject: Re: [SML] Smoke vs Heat vs Rate of Rise detectors
>
> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
>
> Caveat.  I have not kept up with current technology in fire detection
> systems.
>
> Beam detectors have their place, but not any place that is likely to have
> helium balloons.  You really want to have a way to shut them off
> for special events.   You want to consult with a locally licensed fire
> protection engineer and spend the bucks and the time to educate them on
> the special aspects of theater. Local codes will have great influence.
> Make friends with your local fire inspector and ask for advice.
> Finding one who already understands theaters is a pearl of great rarity.
>
> Also, why does the university insist your existing system needs to be
> replaced?   Is it broken?  Did the insurance carrier inspector say so?
> Presumably the existing system was legal when installed and likely
> grandfathered in.
>
> plain heat detectors are cheap and reliable.  They are literally a disk of
> metal or glass ampule that melts or bursts at a set temperature to
> activate an alarm.   My big issue with rate of rise detectors is that if
> you have serious winter at your location, they also detect that you just
> closed the door to the outside, and as the heating system warms the place
> up, they go off.  Rate of rise detectors will alarm faster than the heat
> detectors in a fire situation.
>
> Sprinkler systems are a wonderful thing.   Also, if there is money for
> sprinkler system upgrade, take a real close look at those micro fine water
> mist systems.  They are catching on in europe, on ships, and the
> hotel industry.   Basically they spray out distilled water at high
> pressure to create a mist or fog.  This mist of micro droplets stay in the
> air for a long time, and as the fire sucks in air to burn the fuel,
> the mist gets sucked in with it and extinguishes the fire.   The
> advantage is they use about ten percent of the water compared to a
> conventional sprinkler system.  This greatly reduces the amount of water
> damage.  Cleanup uses rags and wet vacs instead of pumps and shovels.
> The other large advantage is the distilled water mist works on A, B, and C
> fires, and can be used on energized electrical equipment.
>
> Dale
>
> On 3/7/2022 8:28 PM, Bill Conner via Stagecraft wrote:
> > Most modern heat detectors are both rate of rise and fixed temp, so just
> > avoid particle (smoke). (In US, no option in return air other than
> > particle. Am working on a code change to fix that.)  I've not formed a
> > strong opinion on the beam detectors.  Had one that shot across a
> > catwalk. Move past that point fast and no problem, but stop a second and
> > alarm activates.  Another project helium balloons in house set it off.
> > But maybe with thought on placement they'd be OK.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2022, 7:29 PM Riter, Andrew via Stagecraft
> > <stagecraft at theatrical.net <mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     The university has said our entire fire alarm system needs to be
> >     upgraded.____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     When designed in the late 90s (opened in 1997), the designers put
> >     heat detectors in the venues, but missed the “shared” areas that
> >     look like separate rooms on the drawings but actually share the same
> >     air (they put smoke detectors in the pit, Front of House Cove, venue
> >     light locks, and air return system).____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     I’d love to take this opportunity to replace a bunch of the smoke
> >     detectors with Heat detectors, but I believe there is a difference
> >     between Rate of Rise detectors and “set off at x degree level of
> >     heat” detectors.____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Can anyone give me a quick primer on these types of heat detectors,
> >     and advantages / disadvantages of each?____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Thanks everyone.____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     *Andrew M. Riter*
> >     Assistant Technical Director, Head Lighting Technician
> >     Chan Centre for the Performing Arts
> >     The University of British Columbia | Vancouver Campus
> >     6265 Crescent Road | Vancouver BC | V6T 1Z1 Canada
> >     Phone 604 822 2372
> >     andrew.riter at ubc.ca <mailto:andrew.riter at ubc.ca>____
> >
> >     UBC E-mail Signature____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
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