[SML] Relays vs. Traditional Circuit Breakers for LED Power.

Thu Aug 11 16:44:26 UTC 2016

Hi Rob,

There are multiple options for relay panels which take individual circuits, and allow for external control of banks of industrial relays via either cold contact switches, or various control protocols.

Think about how your building's exterior lighting is controlled.

Many of these are not expensive.

Back in the dark ages of the 1990s, when we opened the MGM Grand Conference Center in Las Vegas, we had DMX from our Unison system interfacing with a BIG 'OL box of relays from GE to control the HIDs in the ballrooms, and all of the building's the exterior lighting, in zones.

It was dead simple.  2 big electrical panels with 200(ish) relays each.

I cannot imagine that this technology went away.

The relays went bad occasionally, and we just swapped them out with a box of spares that was provided by our facilities department.

It was cheap, easy to troubleshoot, and effective.  It did require us to access a locked electrical room when the relays died (once the system was stable, this was maybe one relay out of about 400 every few months).

If you're looking for a more elegant solution, we developed a product called the Synapse 4<https://www.chauvetprofessional.com/products/synapse-4/>, which is a combination of an opto-iso for DMX and a 4 circuit relay pack.  It makes it easy to rout DMX and power, and takes a single (up to) 20amp circuit in, give you 4 individually controlled PowerCON outs.  You can make them DMX controlled, or set them up to shut off (or on) after a predetermined time from the loss of DMX.

We developed this for the House of Worship market, so that when they shut off their consoles, the LED fixtures in their rigs can shut down automatically.  Since the quality of volunteers can vary vastly between different venues, we developed this to remove the opportunity for the volunteers to forget.  We have found that it decreases the warranty and non-warranty repairs significantly in years 2 and beyond when the rigs are shut down if they're not in use.

It's either Rack, or clamp mountable, so you can have them in a remote location, or move them around in your rig, pretty easily.

It won't be as cheap as an industrial rack (I think street price is around $400 each), but it's flexible, scalable, easy to setup and use, and fairly volunteer-proof.

Thanks,

-Ford

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft-bounces at theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Rob Graham via Stagecraft
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:57 AM
To: Stagecraft Mailing List
Cc: Rob Graham
Subject: Re: [SML] Relays vs. Traditional Circuit Breakers for LED Power.

Thank you everyone for your wisdom.  The short version is that because they're reluctant to bring in a "paid consultant," I'm tasked with revising specifications for the system.  I was sort of blindsided by one vendor, and had a conversation which led to an update of a 5 year old specification (written by a vendor) document made by someone who was comfortable in, and seemed somewhat reluctant to leave the 2-scene preset world.  I replaced that person; Since then, I've been told to "figure out what it might cost" by the administration so we can start to put together some sort of plan.

My dimming system is a D192 using a Status 12/24 2 scene preset board speaking CMX, and the "new" board is a MC 24/48, also speaking CMX. I expect the control heads on the D192s to die at any given moment; we reboot them fairly regularly now, and I imagine that one day, they just "won't come back on."

The vendors, understandably (it's their job), wrote "let me sell you this" proposals. As I've begun to talk through them with administration and physical plant, questions have come up and I'm doing my best to bring them good answers.  It seems to me there is compromise that can be found.  I think the traditional paned to dmx controlled relay might be a smart solution, as could the ETC Echo panels.

What I'm dead set against is an outright replacement of the racks with traditional dimming and incandescent fixtures exclusively, which is what the original document was.  That feels extremely "20th century thinking" to me, and doesn't serve the long term production and educational needs of the building.

I sincerely appreciate all of the great conversation and suggestions being made here.

RG

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 10:13 AM, dale via Stagecraft <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>> wrote:

> Another important consideration is the location of the breaker panel

> in question.

>

> If it is located far away, at an inconvienent location, or in a locked

> electrical closet.... then remote control mechanisms becomes far more

> useful.

>

> If this is the case, then an approach I saw used once was having all

> those circuits coming from the panel in the locked power room went to

> a big array of ordinary light switches that was in the stage managers

> office.  Each one was labeled with circuit number and what it served.

> This was done when the cost of remote switched control was super

> expensive.  And a light switch from regular sources was far less expensive than relays and control system.

> It's worth costing out this approach versus the suggested panel and

> control system.

>

> And what kind of control system does this suggested array of breakers use?

> That won't be free either, and inserts another point of failure into

> your system.

>

> Dale

>

>

>

> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

>

>

> -------- Original message --------

> From: Stephen Litterst via Stagecraft <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>

> Date: 8/11/16 09:26 (GMT-05:00)

> To: Stagecraft Mailing List <stagecraft at theatrical.net<mailto:stagecraft at theatrical.net>>

> Cc: Stephen Litterst <litterst.stagecraft at gmail.com<mailto:litterst.stagecraft at gmail.com>>

> Subject: Re: [SML] Relays vs. Traditional Circuit Breakers for LED Power.

>

> On 8/11/16 1:26 AM, Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center via Stagecraft wrote:

>>

>> Although this is not relevant to the discussion at hand many breakers

>> for branch circuits are specifically designed and rated to also serve

>> as switches - look for 'SD' (switch duty) devices.

>

> It's entirely relevant, because his campus electricians are suggesting

> they simply flip the breakers.

>

> I agree with the remote relays in some shape or form.  I'm adding LEDs

> into my rig this summer and am putting in a combination of ColorSource

> Relays (where there is no data present) and Sensor R20 modules to

> avoid having to switch things off in the dimmer rack or at the breaker.

>

> Steve L.

>

>

> --

> Stephen Litterst            Technical Operations Supervisor

> litterst at udel.edu<mailto:litterst at udel.edu>           Mitchell Hall

> 302/831-0601                University of Delaware

>

>

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--

Rob Graham

photonguide at gmail.com<mailto:photonguide at gmail.com>

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